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	<title>Comments on: A Layer Model for the IA Profession</title>
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	<link>http://www.inkblurt.com/2006/03/29/a-layer-model-for-the-ia-profession/</link>
	<description>User Experience, Information Architecture &#38; Other Obsessions</description>
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		<title>By: inkblurt &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The trouble with defining Information Architecture</title>
		<link>http://www.inkblurt.com/2006/03/29/a-layer-model-for-the-ia-profession/comment-page-1/#comment-956</link>
		<dc:creator>inkblurt &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The trouble with defining Information Architecture</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 May 2006 23:22:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inkblurt.com/archives/343#comment-956</guid>
		<description>[...] ADDED NOTE: I have a more recent post than this where I finally manage to sort some of it out. See it here: A Layer Model for the IA Profession. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ADDED NOTE: I have a more recent post than this where I finally manage to sort some of it out. See it here: A Layer Model for the IA Profession. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Marsh</title>
		<link>http://www.inkblurt.com/2006/03/29/a-layer-model-for-the-ia-profession/comment-page-1/#comment-923</link>
		<dc:creator>Marsh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 12 Apr 2006 21:09:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inkblurt.com/archives/343#comment-923</guid>
		<description>A few random thoughts

I think the housebuilding anaolgy is apt - in a previous life I was an Interior Architect I (and others) described the practice as like Architecture only backwards. I would suggest the IA is much like web design only backwards... 

The comparison is apt also in that both are concerned with the design of environments and the attempt to structure them in a way that allows users to make sense of them. That IA need not be concerned with physics is in someways a blessing but of course it must adapt to it&#039;s own set of constraints - e.g. usability(maybe).

The differnce is in the dimensions - architecture in many respects and most cases is designed to be understtod in a single (or only a few ways). Web must be always understood in many ways as there is rarely a right answer to the complexity of web navigation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A few random thoughts</p>
<p>I think the housebuilding anaolgy is apt &#8211; in a previous life I was an Interior Architect I (and others) described the practice as like Architecture only backwards. I would suggest the IA is much like web design only backwards&#8230; </p>
<p>The comparison is apt also in that both are concerned with the design of environments and the attempt to structure them in a way that allows users to make sense of them. That IA need not be concerned with physics is in someways a blessing but of course it must adapt to it&#8217;s own set of constraints &#8211; e.g. usability(maybe).</p>
<p>The differnce is in the dimensions &#8211; architecture in many respects and most cases is designed to be understtod in a single (or only a few ways). Web must be always understood in many ways as there is rarely a right answer to the complexity of web navigation.</p>
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		<title>By: .cross.wired.mind.</title>
		<link>http://www.inkblurt.com/2006/03/29/a-layer-model-for-the-ia-profession/comment-page-1/#comment-907</link>
		<dc:creator>.cross.wired.mind.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Apr 2006 21:13:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inkblurt.com/archives/343#comment-907</guid>
		<description>[...] Andrew Hinton has given us a brilliant cognitive model to frame the discussion of of the definition of information architecture. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Andrew Hinton has given us a brilliant cognitive model to frame the discussion of of the definition of information architecture. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: David Fiorito</title>
		<link>http://www.inkblurt.com/2006/03/29/a-layer-model-for-the-ia-profession/comment-page-1/#comment-906</link>
		<dc:creator>David Fiorito</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Apr 2006 21:08:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inkblurt.com/archives/343#comment-906</guid>
		<description>BINGO!

Man.  You said it.  You have a way of saying what I am thinking in a way that makes more sense than I could ever make.

I think IAI Board should read this.  Our community needs to be thinking about this - where we are and where we are going.  You have given us a cognitive map that we can use to frame the discussion.

awesome.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BINGO!</p>
<p>Man.  You said it.  You have a way of saying what I am thinking in a way that makes more sense than I could ever make.</p>
<p>I think IAI Board should read this.  Our community needs to be thinking about this &#8211; where we are and where we are going.  You have given us a cognitive map that we can use to frame the discussion.</p>
<p>awesome.</p>
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		<title>By: AndrewH</title>
		<link>http://www.inkblurt.com/2006/03/29/a-layer-model-for-the-ia-profession/comment-page-1/#comment-903</link>
		<dc:creator>AndrewH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Mar 2006 17:12:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inkblurt.com/archives/343#comment-903</guid>
		<description>Reponse to Jorge: 

I regret using &quot;housebuilders&quot; as the analogy to some degree ... I didn&#039;t want to draw that comparison literally. I was trying to just describe the difference between a activity/tool (saw) and the practice (housebuilding) -- I agree about real architecture as an analog. But honestly I don&#039;t even see it as just an analogy. I think I quite literally create architectures for information environments (i.e. made of digital information). 

But even architects can point at a building, because the actual physical structure is made of walls. Pointing to the harmonization of disparate elements is harder to do when you don&#039;t have a big honkin&#039; structure for people to notice -- on the Web, the structure is invisible, between interfaces. Architects can skin their buildings in cool aluminum and stuff, but the only physical manifestation of our work is the interface, which Interaction/Visual Design is primarily responsible for. 

I&#039;m not saying it&#039;s impossible, just harder for us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reponse to Jorge: </p>
<p>I regret using &#8220;housebuilders&#8221; as the analogy to some degree &#8230; I didn&#8217;t want to draw that comparison literally. I was trying to just describe the difference between a activity/tool (saw) and the practice (housebuilding) &#8212; I agree about real architecture as an analog. But honestly I don&#8217;t even see it as just an analogy. I think I quite literally create architectures for information environments (i.e. made of digital information). </p>
<p>But even architects can point at a building, because the actual physical structure is made of walls. Pointing to the harmonization of disparate elements is harder to do when you don&#8217;t have a big honkin&#8217; structure for people to notice &#8212; on the Web, the structure is invisible, between interfaces. Architects can skin their buildings in cool aluminum and stuff, but the only physical manifestation of our work is the interface, which Interaction/Visual Design is primarily responsible for. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not saying it&#8217;s impossible, just harder for us.</p>
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		<title>By: Jorge Arango</title>
		<link>http://www.inkblurt.com/2006/03/29/a-layer-model-for-the-ia-profession/comment-page-1/#comment-901</link>
		<dc:creator>Jorge Arango</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Mar 2006 14:45:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inkblurt.com/archives/343#comment-901</guid>
		<description>Andrew, thanks for this article -- it is a very useful perspective. I find it interesting how pervasive construction (brick and mortar) metaphors are in this field. 

With regards to this:

&quot;Unlike our friendly housebuilders, we can&#039;t point at a shelter and say &#039;we make that!&#039;&quot;

Could this be because we are looking at the wrong group for an analogy? What we do is closer to architecture (brick and mortar) than housebuilding. Architects can&#039;t point to a building and honestly say &quot;we make that!&quot;, but they _can_ point at the building and say &quot;this exists because I harmonized a variety of disparate elements and created the plans that enabled the builder to make it!&quot; (or something like that. Whew, what a mouthful!)

In any case, I&#039;ve used this analogy in the past to help explain what I do: &quot;what architects do for buildings, I do for websites.&quot; Most folks seem to understand this (as far as they understand what architects do.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew, thanks for this article &#8212; it is a very useful perspective. I find it interesting how pervasive construction (brick and mortar) metaphors are in this field. </p>
<p>With regards to this:</p>
<p>&#8220;Unlike our friendly housebuilders, we can&#8217;t point at a shelter and say &#8216;we make that!&#8217;&#8221;</p>
<p>Could this be because we are looking at the wrong group for an analogy? What we do is closer to architecture (brick and mortar) than housebuilding. Architects can&#8217;t point to a building and honestly say &#8220;we make that!&#8221;, but they _can_ point at the building and say &#8220;this exists because I harmonized a variety of disparate elements and created the plans that enabled the builder to make it!&#8221; (or something like that. Whew, what a mouthful!)</p>
<p>In any case, I&#8217;ve used this analogy in the past to help explain what I do: &#8220;what architects do for buildings, I do for websites.&#8221; Most folks seem to understand this (as far as they understand what architects do.)</p>
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		<title>By: Brenda</title>
		<link>http://www.inkblurt.com/2006/03/29/a-layer-model-for-the-ia-profession/comment-page-1/#comment-900</link>
		<dc:creator>Brenda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Mar 2006 13:25:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inkblurt.com/archives/343#comment-900</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s interesting that you chose housebuilders as an analogy... ever since the Baltimore Summit (2000?) when I heard Peter Morville relate the stonecutter analogy to the evolution of the IA profession, I&#039;ve used it to describe the &quot;state of things&quot; to newcomers to the field, to describe when/where they might fit in.  You know the one... a person comes upon 3 stonecutters, asks them one by one what they&#039;re doing.  The first says &quot;I&#039;m working to feed my family.&quot;  The second says &quot;I&#039;m trying to be the best stonecutter I can possibly be&quot;.  The third says &quot;Well, sir... I&#039;m building a cathedral.&quot;  If you think of the stonecutters as the things each one of us does as an IA--cathedral-building/discipline, master stonecutting/practice and clock-punchers/activities--I think there are some parallels to your model. I agree that just about any profession would fit into the model.  But I&#039;m glad to see IA specifically talked about in all 3 facets at once; we tend to get ourselves wedged into one layer and then waste an awful lot of time arguing our way out.  Thanks for sharing your thinking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s interesting that you chose housebuilders as an analogy&#8230; ever since the Baltimore Summit (2000?) when I heard Peter Morville relate the stonecutter analogy to the evolution of the IA profession, I&#8217;ve used it to describe the &#8220;state of things&#8221; to newcomers to the field, to describe when/where they might fit in.  You know the one&#8230; a person comes upon 3 stonecutters, asks them one by one what they&#8217;re doing.  The first says &#8220;I&#8217;m working to feed my family.&#8221;  The second says &#8220;I&#8217;m trying to be the best stonecutter I can possibly be&#8221;.  The third says &#8220;Well, sir&#8230; I&#8217;m building a cathedral.&#8221;  If you think of the stonecutters as the things each one of us does as an IA&#8211;cathedral-building/discipline, master stonecutting/practice and clock-punchers/activities&#8211;I think there are some parallels to your model. I agree that just about any profession would fit into the model.  But I&#8217;m glad to see IA specifically talked about in all 3 facets at once; we tend to get ourselves wedged into one layer and then waste an awful lot of time arguing our way out.  Thanks for sharing your thinking.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick Lowery</title>
		<link>http://www.inkblurt.com/2006/03/29/a-layer-model-for-the-ia-profession/comment-page-1/#comment-898</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick Lowery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Mar 2006 01:34:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inkblurt.com/archives/343#comment-898</guid>
		<description>Andrew, I finally get the point you were making about interior design vs. IA - it&#039;s a skill that a lot of us might have, and even practice, but not central to the discipline.  And I think Eddie has hit on the reason behind the disagreement. Whenever someone asks me whether a particular task is the IA&#039;s role, or the information designer&#039;s, or the writer&#039;s, part of me thinks &quot;it depends on what IA and designer and writer we are talking about.&quot;  Individual skill sets vary so much, and the most successful teams let the lines move a little bit depending on the players, in my experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew, I finally get the point you were making about interior design vs. IA &#8211; it&#8217;s a skill that a lot of us might have, and even practice, but not central to the discipline.  And I think Eddie has hit on the reason behind the disagreement. Whenever someone asks me whether a particular task is the IA&#8217;s role, or the information designer&#8217;s, or the writer&#8217;s, part of me thinks &#8220;it depends on what IA and designer and writer we are talking about.&#8221;  Individual skill sets vary so much, and the most successful teams let the lines move a little bit depending on the players, in my experience.</p>
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		<title>By: Priyanka</title>
		<link>http://www.inkblurt.com/2006/03/29/a-layer-model-for-the-ia-profession/comment-page-1/#comment-897</link>
		<dc:creator>Priyanka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Mar 2006 00:17:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inkblurt.com/archives/343#comment-897</guid>
		<description>Andrew, I love your approach to look at IA from a layered perspective and to keep the discipline aspect separate from the practice. It does a great job at addressing the layers of complexity in the field. Thanks !</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew, I love your approach to look at IA from a layered perspective and to keep the discipline aspect separate from the practice. It does a great job at addressing the layers of complexity in the field. Thanks !</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Dalton</title>
		<link>http://www.inkblurt.com/2006/03/29/a-layer-model-for-the-ia-profession/comment-page-1/#comment-896</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Dalton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Mar 2006 21:58:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.inkblurt.com/archives/343#comment-896</guid>
		<description>Andrew - by god you&#039;ve done it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew &#8211; by god you&#8217;ve done it!</p>
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